I receive emails pretty regularly from classmates asking for "System Passwords" when they really should just be finding their names in Classmate Profiles to log in for the first time. It's maddening. There are 1,238 of us in my class.

Have you ever considered playing-down that part of the bounce page, instead of making that email form take up half of it, and make it a little more obvious that they need to get to Classmate Profiles. I can't believe that there are actually that many people ever looking for System Passwords.

It really is a huge distraction that just leads to waiting, and I've noticed that some people haven't ever come back to the site even after I sent them the direct links to their names.

I just redid my homepage to see if I can head some of this off.

Any thoughts on the topic?

Well, I just double checked to be sure that your homepage and classmate profiles page are both not password protected, and they are not. This means that your classmates have a clear path to joining the site. If they come across a page that looks like this, it is because they are not logged in as a member in your site. Classmates who have joined would simply enter their email address and established password. Non members would need to go to the Classmate Profiles page, click their own name and then the Join Now link. The only people who would ever need the System Password are those who are not going to become members of the site and to whom you wish to give access to the site to see the password protected pages.

Most of the people who email asking for the "system password", are really looking for a password to get into the system - and are just using the wrong term. Some are new to the site and I direct them to the path for joining.
But many are registered class members who have forgotten their own password. I've created an email I keep in the "email the class folder" explaining all the steps - with images - for those who are members but can't figure out how to retrieve their password. I too find it annoying, but this resolution helps in these cases. I suppose the same could be done for those who haven't yet registered.

The problem always arises from people who are new to the website. It doesn't take long before they click on a page that is password protected, and that's the end of the trail. So this pops up. While the second sentence gives clear directions on what they need to do, the lead gets buried somewhere between the bold red text and the irrelevant big boxes that take up 7/8 of the page as a distraction. I know some intelligent people who have been completely baffled by this design.

I do layout. That's why I bring it up. I'll just keep answering the emails.

I agree with Shanny. For new users, all the information is there, just not in a way that leads one to the correct choice naturally.

It's not that the explanation isn't there. It is. Which means that the design needs a bit of tweaking

To a lesser degree, we have the same problem for those that forget their password. Again the text is there, but somehow the focus is missed.

Thanks, Jack. That's what I was getting at. The present layout is SCREAMING for classmates to send me an unnecessary email. And I can't think of any reason why I would be handing a password to a stranger just because they sent me an email. That defeats the purpose of locking everything down in the first place, doesn't it? I have made a couple of people "guests", but we've been out drinking on numerous occasions.

I just logged out to see what the password help situation is all about. I've only been at this for a few months, but I can see where that's headed also.

By the way, I like how both of you handled "How to Join" and "First Website Visit", Jack and Diana. There are some great ideas there.

Thanks!

I think I see where New users ask for a system password. This wording needs modification

Quote:

Remove the "New Classmates" and maybe add something saying that classmates Join instead.

Then this modification to make it clear that classmates Join vs the system password route.

Quote:

Could say "If you are a guest ..." and "if you are a classmate, please Join ..."

Exactly. Resizing some graphics would go a long way also.

Or, "If you are associated with the IRS or Dog the Bounty Hunter, please request an all-access pass here~"

"If the little high school picture in the upper left looks familiar, do this....."

Y'all are having fun... I want in!

Five hours ago, I posted about our school's alumni site on a Facebook group page about our hometown memories. I had a quick reply asking for the system password. Since my post, over 15 new members have joined but not that one person who asked for the system password - even though I gave her the correct path to follow. I'm disappointed but hope she is just at work.

I am thrilled at the numbers today! Yippeeeeee!

I just did a quick check. Five of the people asking me for System Passwords never came back to our site. The return message comes from my personal email account, so it could just get thrown right into a spam pile... or we had a date that ended badly.

Our class is relatively large at 1,238, and we have the added obstacle that they merged two high schools when we were juniors. We're dealing with hundreds and hundreds of mystery names. And faces. That don't look like they used to.

Anything to make this less difficult.

Scott,

A note about this... what is happening is that we may send an email to the class or, as I did today, post on Facebook to look at the LOST & FOUND page regarding alumni looking for a yearbook and one that is offered. Obviously, one alum went to the site by the link provided and then straight to the page. That is where she saw the option for the system password.

I am watching my requests. I certainly do not want to lose a member because they have a concern when I will not give them the system password.

It just seems unnecessary. A few tweaks to the bounce page, and I think people would get to where they want to go by themselves.

We're doing a full court press before our reunion right now, so we're certainly not trying to drag anything out or discourage anyone.

I recently received two email messages from known classmates who have requested this system password. When I nicely write back explaining the procedure, as mutually agreed upon by our site admin team and according to the host provider, is to become a site member instead of being sent the password, they respond with "yes I got the membership invitation (and thank you very much) but still want the system password."

I have had discussions with other CC Member Administrators but thought I would seek ideas here. It feels very awkward relating with these classmates now over this situation.
They are my real life (offline) friends too. (Of course, not that many of you "regulars" here aren't "friends" too. Lol!)

Understood, Gary.

This is a reply I sent to a request with the Subject Line: System Password

"Hi Mick,

Please go to the home page and follow the instructions. You will enter your own password as you register.

Gwen

Gwen Reinboldt Corey
Class of 1970
Site Administrator/Webmaster"

The key words are "...your own password..."

Give it a try.

Continuing my reply above...

The 'less is more' in a reply works best. I do not recall one classmate or alum countering my reply as worded.

I appreciate the post, Gwen. I have sent an email to the classmates, perhaps by coincidence, with wording extremely near to yours also. However, my classmates have countered the reply with what I posted. In addition, one even sent another message with this quote: "What's the big deal? Just give me the darn p.w., like the site says I'm supposed to ask for." We'll! Imagine my reaction!

That is why I brought it up in this thread.

Gwen Corey wrote:

Gary,

Your Classmate Profiles page is password protected. Classmates cannot join your website without knowing the "System Password" if you have that page password protected.

Try logging out of your website, then going to your Home Page and clicking the JOIN HERE link. You will get a page showing up saying "Please enter the System Password". That is why they are asking for it.

I have that page protected for security concerns. Several none classmate "site visitors" were able to see every classmate name and picture and then tried to use this information to compile a telemarketing list based on the names. Another committee member discovered information about it and didn't think it was acceptable or appropriate. After discussing the situation, it was decided protection was necessary. We don't feel comfortable reopening (lifting the protection) if anyone can just log online, go to the site, see our classmates names and pictures, then do something like this. Who is to say it won't happen again?

Kyle Erickson wrote:

Not sure you understood what Kyle wrote. What you have done Gary means that classmates must have the system password to join. Read your original response again. They are doing what they have to do because of the "protection". How did your admins expect them to join

IOW, your response made no sense to them and that's why keep asking.
Quote:

(Visitors can't see classmate details unless they join. So other than the list of names it's slightly less useful than looking at a phone listing. How this helps a telemarketer contact anyone is beyond me. I'm assuming that classmates protect their profiles which most do. If not, ask CC to enable that for everyone by default.)

The JOIN HERE link will first try to bring up the Classmate Profiles page. If it is password protected it will then try to bring up the Missing Classmates page. If that page is also password protected, it will then bring up the "enter website system password" page

Since both of these pages are password protected, that is why the classmates are always asking you for the System Password

Understood Kyle but there remains a concern to be addressed. Are we supposed to put up with and tolerate abuses of access to our class information?

I can turn on the "Classmate Profile Override" so that all classmate profiles are password protected if that helps.

The real question is: How will classmates join ("become a site member") if not via the profile or missing classmates? Your original complaint was that they keep asking for the system password. Yet they need the system password to join. And you don't want to give it to them.

I'd be interested to see what the full wording that is sent in how they should join. If it mentions joining via the profiles, that's simply impossible with the way the site is configured.

At least if you open one of them up, they will be registering via a documented method and you will have some idea who they are via the IP.

I still don't see how can a list of names be useful to a telemarketing firm? Sounds like somebody is connecting dots that shouldn't be connected.

(Edit: Especially if you let Kyle add the override as I noted earlier.)

I take issue with you for calling my concern a complaint. You are now twisting words to suite your contention.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

I'm just repeating what you said Gary. I take issue with you saying I am "twisting words" to suit something??? I'm not twisting anything. You are complaining about people asking you for the system password when you've written something that they obviously can't do with the way the site is set up. Here, read it again. What is it?

Quote:

Nice try Jack.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

WOW. So how are you going to solve the non-complaint Gary?

Please don't devolve this conversation. We are trying to help you. But it's getting very difficult

The concern will be solved privately.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

Oops, that was my error in not checking your site, Gary. It never occurred to me that you would not have something open for your classmates to access the site to join.

I understand privacy but we need to make our sites accessible to our classmates/alumni or not expect them to join. In general, being able to join easily is welcome... anything that is a bit difficult tends to chase them away. Be happy they are bugging you; they want in.

Several admins have the Missing Classmates page open or use a verification process. You may wish to consider switching to one of these methods.

I'm not sure about you, but at one point I overdid it and had to loosen the reigns. Though I have each profile locked and my classmates (and TAP members) are not able to open them to public searches, what they choose to make available to other classmates on my sites is up to them and I cannot stop them from signing up on other alumni/reunion sites, which in turns builds a class list.

With CC's assistance, we have excellent privacy protection. I keep my promise not to share their information with anyone, then my concern is site content that is interesting, changes regularly and so on.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

You just don't understand.

Gary, I suggest you accept Kyle's offer. This is what I have on all my member sites.

Kyle Erickson wrote:

Gary Hodge wrote:

Gwen Corey wrote:

Gary, I suggest you accept Kyle's offer. This is what I have on all my member sites.

Kyle Erickson wrote:

I can turn on the "Classmate Profile Override" so that all classmate profiles are password protected if that helps.

Gwen. I would like to talk privately about your experiences, please.

One last post for the night, as I wrote privately... I'm dozing at the keys.

I'm always happy to help anyone but am frazzled from weeks of packing and all involved in moving.

Catch y'all around the forums topics again soon!

Expressing a legitimate concern. Cannot be held responsible for others interpreting it as a complaint.

The Classmate Profile Privacy override switch that we can turn on for your website only means that every classmate profile that gets created cannot be viewed unless you are logged in or have the System Password. If you are logged out of your website and your Classmate Profiles page is not password protected, you would see the list of classmates, but every classmate who has profile information in the system would show the LOCK ICON next to their name to signify that you must be logged in to view the contents.

Right now, (without the override), classmates have a choice if they want their profile to be public or password protected. With the override, the classmates won't have a choice.

When a none site member classmate sees the screen that indicates they are to click on the classmate profiles link, then click on their name, etc... to join the site (toward the top of the page) and also they are being asked to send a request for a system password via the rectangular with typing inside of it.

Are the classmates who are not site member purposely being give two choices?

Ex: Is it the intention of Class Creator staff to give them two choices on purpose: (1)to click on the classmate profile link and follow that course of action or (2) to ask for the system password? We work so hard creating our sites only to find, lately, more often than not, our none site member classmates are sending us system password request email messages without any interest in joining the site.

There are 3 options there. 1 - Simply log in. 2 - If you are not a classmate / member, then enter the System Password. & 3 - A contact form to request either more instructions, or the system password from the admin. The only way one sees this page is if they are not logged in and therefore it cannot be a conditional page showing classmates one thing and non members another.

O.K... Of course a none site member who is also a classmate will not be logged on or into the site. What I am still trying to have clarified is if the none site member classmate is not logged in, will he or she see the info requesting both the system password and the request sentence that they join with their fellow classmates by clicking on the classmate profile message at the top of the page? I am totally confused. Do they have the choice to join or ask for the system password?

Non-site member classmate, Daniel, will see what is in the attached screen shot if he accesses the site, goes to Classmate Profiles and clicks on his name.

Gary,

Instead of being confused, you could try it yourself and discover what will happen. Just log out of your website, then click on the password protected page. You will see this at the top "New Members: Join this site by visiting the Classmate Profiles page. Find and click on your name. ", but you will also see the "Login" and "enter System Password". If you click the link called "Classmate Profiles" in the top message, you will be taken to the Classmate Profiles page.

And if your Classmate Profiles page is locked, clicking on that link the top will take them to the Missing Classmates page where they can click on their name and go from there to join.
Unfortunately, the way this page is formatted, that link at the top is overshadowed by the rest of the page which tends to get you a lot of requests for a "System Password". It would be nice if the Join instructions at the top were the primary focus, perhaps in a box with a border, larger font, or something to draw the eye away from all the rest.

Thank you, John. That was my point when I started this thread. I believe changing the layout of that page a bit would alleviate a lot of problems.

I could be wrong.

I made a video about this topic here: http://screencast.com/t/4qxn4XAhe

Glad to see you picked up on something that is easy to fix. Good video, but missed a more important design element that requires changing also. IOW, the "layout" that Shanny mentioned a few times. Word changes will help a lot, but the finesse is in the graphical layout.

John also emphasizing that the "way the page is formatted" doesn't quite direct one's focus to actually joining: "draw the eye away from all the rest". Also a simple change. Throw up a few samples and we'll give feedback I'm sure

This is both subjective and objective. Objective for those with experience in this sort of thing and subjective for those with just a natural "feel".

IOW, it's a bit more than just wording here. We've never had the system pw request be an issue (only request was from an outsider wanting to see some more), but then that might be because I realized that the join dialog wasn't all that clear so I spent time (just like Shanny, John and some others) to make it clearer how to join right up front.

Remember, the LEAST important thing is explain how to or even to let someone request a system password. In fact, I wouldn't feel bad if that was not even an option. Heck, I suggest CC make it a choice if we even want to offer a "system password".

The goal: All we want to do is to have people join. (FWIW My co-admins denied the one system PW request from a stranger.)

For a page to be "password protected" there has to be a password. Nearly everybody has at least one password protected page. We could make it a choice to not have one at all but then you'd be stuck with no option to ever make a page private. Well, I suppose you could put some other wording up there, but it's helpful if you reach a password protected page to have guidance on how to join and view that page if you're authorized to do so.

You're certainly right -- there's better solutions here still. The only reason I said "for now" in my video above is because I think this simple change will help dramatically with the existing structure. A more thorough redo will no doubt be better. Like most things on Class Creator, this page was once simple. The needs of many caused many ifs ands and buts in the code, and the page has reached a time now where a redo to incorporate everything necessary would be helpful. This will be below other higher priority items though. The quick wording change for now should be helpful.

I am confused on what you are explaining here Brad. A SYSTEM password has nothing to do with a CLASS join password. There's really no requirement for a SYSTEM password for our site. Those are two different passwords

Nothing would change at all - our pages would stay exactly the same in terms of being PW. There would just be no SYSTEM password option - simplifying this whole thing completely since there would be no need at all to give a choice. One joins or they don't. It would also look way cleaner. Please read what I wrote above again.

It's also a simple graphical change to do what John suggested - actually even simpler than a coding change.

Where and why did this "system password" option originate? It's not a standard methodology for joining and that's why it's also causing some confusion - two ways to see beyond the "wall".

If in the past someone thought it would be a good idea to let somebody browse the site without joining, I can think of a much better/secure way to do this vs the way it is done now.

I'd create a temporary "guest", tell that person to join as that guest and also have this type of "guest" expire automatically at the end of some set time - e.g. a week (requires code by CC).

That keeps everyone from having to remember to change the system PW and all that. The goal for most of us, is to also keep our sites secure

---

I was thinking - was this a solution to those that PW protect their home page? Again, there's a better way that's temporary for those very few that do that (which is like setting up a website and making sure nobody sees it). Why make the 99% of the rest of us suffer

You cannot password protect a page without first setting a system password. I.E. you can't "password protect" something without first setting a password. On the Edit Site Pages page if you try to tick the password protected box, you can't until you have set a system password.

I'm just pointing out that's how it works currently. We could change it from "Password protected" to "Restrict to viewing by Classmates only" or something like that. You're still going to run into the same thing though: The minute somebody makes something restricted to Classmates only, there's many who also want to allow a way for somebody who's not a classmate to see what they just restricted. I.E. you'd need a password to get in. If we changed it to something like that and offered no way for admins to make a password for somebody who's NOT a classmate to view a page that they've restricted we'd cause all kinds of problems. Numerous admins have given out their system password for a variety of reasons to non classmates.

Bottom line is if you're going to "password protect" something, then there needs to be a password. If there's a password, there needs to be somewhere to enter the password. Thus the setup you see.

A robust and proper solution for the scenario here is more complex than it probably seems. A new page with new wording needs to be drawn up that creates the best scenario to meet multiple configurations. The current page actually tries to do that -- it just doesn't do it good enough.

What we should really do here is change "Password Protected" on Edit Site Pages to "Restrict to Classmates only", then not require a System Password at all. But we'd need to keep System Password optional for those already using it or those who wish to use it. Then the password protected page would need wording consistent with whether or not there's a System Password in the first place. If there is then you'd get a page similar to what you see now. If there's not (i.e. the admin has no desire to allow non members to ever see a restricted page) then rather than getting a password entry page you'd just get a message you're not an authorized viewer and a link to the appropriate join spot (again assuming either Classmate Profiles or Missing Classmates is not locked down). Obviously anybody who restricts both the Classmate Profiles page and the Missing Classmates page would then be required to create a System Password so new classmates could join.

I'll have to think about this more but this would be a cleaner setup, eliminating words like "System Password" entirely for those admins who just don't need it -- while keeping necessary structure in place for those already using it or those who are very security conscious and have both Classmate Profiles and Missing Classmates locked down.

There's numerous admins giving out System Password to non members to allow access. There's a litany of reasons people want/need to do this.

Again if you're locking down both Classmate Profiles and Missing Classmates, clearly there absolutely must be a password you can give out to people so they can get into those pages and ultimately join.

If you're an admin who's not doing that, and you also have no need whatsoever to allow non members into a page restricted to classmates only, then again I think the System Password could exist but be optional. Only those who have one of the two scenarios above would need to use it. Again:

1) You're locking down both Classmate Profiles and Missing Classmates

2) You have a need or desire to allow non members into pages restricted to members.

Makes sense to me! Thoughts? Whatever we collectively agree on here I'll take to the Programming Team.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

We are having a chicken and egg conversation here. Just because the system is designed with a "System PW" field doesn't mean you have to have a login screen with the option. Think about what I just said - the login screen and the system pw are TWO different things. (I'd also handle the non-classmate person the way I described. System PW not required and it's way more secure.)

It's not standard practice to have it the way CC does it. I do not understand how the way it is now with dual options has anything to do with my comments? I'm saying for CC to CHANGE it to an option so the screen is simplified.

I did not say there was not going to be a PW, so I have no idea why you keep bringing that in. Mine is KISS compared to current.

1. New users click a PW page and get a screen telling them how to join.

2. Current members LOGIN.

3, There is no system PW option or any message stuff to get one. It's either 1 or 2 Almost everybody will understand that one

4. If some site wants the System PW stuff, redesigned more complicated screen that causes all the grief for them

The scenarios are really pretty simple here. Much simpler than most GUI stuff I've done. The issue is that the current LogIn page does TOO MUCH.

A simple option to just remove the System PW & Message contact on that screen (with no other changes) gives 90% of what I'm talking about. For the other 10% add the rewording, etc. for those that want the System PW thing.

I'm just suggesting that since you are there in the code, make the changes to allow for NO system PW option to show. You can keep the System PW in the system for all I care, it just won't be used

This really is not complicated

Brad Switzer wrote:

My answer to that is this:

There are WAY MORE admins that do not give out the system password to non members.

Just showing that works both ways

Personally, I'm curious about how many have actually locked down both Profiles and Missing. And they actually want people to join?

However, I am allowing for the System Password. Indeed, if you follow what I'm suggesting, those sites that rely only on a system password will also get a simplified LogIn. All they need to enter is the system password. Nice and Clean.

Yes. I think we're saying pretty much the same thing Jack. The only minor difference is with what I said above if the Admin does not utilize the System Password function then it never shows up anywhere.

Bear in mind right now any Admin who has 1 or more password protected pages also has a System Password. We'd have no way of knowing if they have given out the System Password to any non members or if they don't care about this at all. Thus yes, you're right: for any current users we'd need to include some sort of "don't show it" option since we don't know how they're using it. For brand new users it should be even easier than that -- again, if they are not using it in the first place, it never shows up anywhere. That would certainly be simpler.

Thanks Jack.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

Thanks for the chance.

I just realized that the existing login screen on the home page will work just fine for the no system PW option.

I follow what Jack and Brad are saying, yet I hope you will follow my thoughts...

1) As I understand it, the system password allows those who have it to see all site pages that are password protected BUT NOT profile pages. Yes? No?

2) A Guest on a site is able to see all password protected pages, as well as profile pages. Yes? No?

3) If we no longer have the system password page, having an option to allow or not allow guests to view profiles would be preferred. This goes right along with discussions of privacy. I just want to see we retain that.

Thanks. Now back to your regular scheduled postings.

1) Yes, System Password allows viewing of all password protected pages but not classmate restricted profiles.

2) Yes, a Guest on the site is a member of the site and thus have all member privileges.

3) System Password and corresponding page must still exist. New setup would simply make it optional and get it out of the way for admins who don't need it, thus simplifying the interface.

Gwen Corey wrote:

Some thoughts:

On the Edit Site Pages page, EDIT LINK, there is only one choice, " Password Protected " for each link. Maybe we also add a 2nd type of password protection, "Logged In Classmate Only"
"Password Protected" would work the same way it does now, either Classmate Logged in OR System Password
"Logged In Classmate Only" would work the same way as trying to view a classmate profile, JavaScript Alert box appears saying "Sorry, you must be logged in to view"
Since you cannot have BOTH "Password Protected" and "Logged in Classmate Only", they should appear in a drop-down list instead of a check-box. (similar to the choices for creating a new Announcement)

Of course, it wouldn't just happen when the link is clicked because the link could be stored in someone's browser book marks or as a link on another website or page of the website, when the page is loaded, the contents of the page would need to be replaced with the

"This section of the web site requires you to log in. If you haven't signed up yet, find your profile on the list of classmates.

If you've forgotten your password, click here to reset it.

Contact us"

instead of a JavaScript Alert box. NOTE: This exact wording already appears if you copy the URL for a password protected classmate, log out of the website, then paste the URL into the browser address window.

Another idea: We already have three different types of announcements, "Non-Logged in", "Logged In", and "Everyone", maybe the same options could be added for each page link. However if I remember right, the "Logged In" announcement also shows for System Password.

Brad, thanks for the video! And thank you to everyone that has contributed to this thread!

I wanted to address the TITLES being used in your video Brad. Basically the 'title' "GUESTS". And I liked Jack's usage of TEMPORARY GUEST --- for those that would need a system password. Reason being as I have both MEMBERS on my class sites. I have CLASSMATES and GUESTS that are MEMBERS and both CLASSMATES and GUESTS have their own private passwords to log-in to the site.

Therefore since the title GUESTS is already in use, might I suggest a defining of such to: GUEST MEMBERS (those that have PW and full access to the site) versus TEMPORARY GUESTS that simply obtain the site password to view all PW protected pages, except locked-down classmate profiles.

Additionally, I liked Jack's suggestion to make the TEMPORARY GUESTS access when given the site password by the site admin just THAT... TEMPORARY with an expiration date of say 30 days. I am by no means a programmer, and not sure how difficult that would be to write the code and incorporate but makes good sense to me.

Just in case anyone is curious, I rarely have anyone request my site password, as I made "instructions" for joining my site clear from the beginning. And revamped them during the course of my site's existence. Originally, all members joined via clicking on their name in the classmates profiles list. However, once I discovered that competing class sites had 'copied' my list of classmates names and were using them to solicit my classmates to join their sites, I shut down (password protected) the classmates profiles page AND the ONLY page available for new members to join my site is now by clicking on the MISSING CLASSMATES page. To date, (site began Sept 2010 - Class of 1981 and August 2011 for the Class of 1982) no problems or issues from actual classmates seeking to join the class site. And the GUEST MEMBERS that I allow membership are all alumni and none of them have encountered any problems with simply asking me to join the site via 'contact us' as I have in my instructions to do so, none of them have ever asked for the site password. See the attached file of my "INSTRUCTIONS". I have to admit I saw this on another admins site and simply made my own in the program Paint.

By the way, apparently I came here via the second site of which I am also an admin... the Class of 1982. My original site and year I graduated is the Class of 1981, of which I am the root admin of both. Thanks for allowing me to add my thoughts on this topic.

Good points Marla. A thought: Considering there are Guest Members as you pointed out, what if we don't use the word "Guests" at all in that right hand box? How about something like "Non-Members"?

I don't have time right now to make this look beautiful, but you get the idea. The "HERE" buttons would be hyperlinks that create emails to the administrator. You can use "non-members". "non-classmates", "stalkers", whatever.

What is your eye drawn to first?

Get Started. It's very good Chris. Thank you.

Again this will have to come in several flavors. Must change based on:

1) Whether or not there is a System Password
2) Whether the Classmate Profiles page is locked down
3) Whether the Missing Classmates page is locked down
4) Whether new members are on a pre-entered class list or permitted to join without a name on the list

I will create the various iterations needed.

Brad, "Non-Members" as a replacement TITLE would work well. Thanks!

Shanny (or Chris as Brad referred to you), to answer your question, my focus on your illustration is drawn to the big blue colored oval containing the words "GET STARTED". Thanks!

Shanny,
That's a great upgrade to to what I had in mind a dozen posts ago. I might quibble about the "Get Started" since it might be more to the point if it said "Join Our Site" - assuming that people have actually read the instructions above and won't just click on something big, blue, and highly visible.

I like the idea of a "Temporary Guest" which allows access to locked pages but not classmember profiles. I think Brad said that the system password does that, but there's no way I know of to monitor it's usage, and it doesn't expire.

Our plan here is that anyone who thinks they need a "System Password" is either encouraged to join if they're a class member (Love Gwen's one-line response) or offered a Guest profile - to be filled out and verified if they decide to join. A 'temporary guest' option would be icing on the cake.

Agree. Agree. Agree. Well, that was easy!

Great responses. Nice work prototyping.

My raw login screen preference would be the one Shanny made Without the guest part.

People can always Contact Us and we can decide how to manually let them see. If CC didn't make a permanent "temporary guest", I can see us creating one and just change the login to expire (if I remember). That "temporary" could also serve multiple people at the same time if one thinks about it. I think that was actually done at least once in one of these posts inviting us to see their site (can be any fake address).

I also like some of the friendly words in Marla's sample and very clear eye candy. It comes as across as very inviting.

System PW only systems only require a simpler yet explanation with Contact link and PW entry only.

So that takes care of 3 designs

Made 4 mockups to cover 4 necessary scenarios. Submitted for layout. After layout is complete will submit to programming. The 4 mockups will do all items suggested above. Thanks very much everyone!

FYI wording changes suggested in my video above have now been implemented. A more thorough rework of the needed screens will be awhile in the making. I think the new wording changes will help considerably for now though. Thanks again everyone.

Kyle.

I have. Many times.

Thank you Brad, for the new updates and information, etc...

But our class site is losing classmate members because they try to re enter the site (without going through the joining process) by just requesting a "system password". They say "What for? Why join or rejoin when all I need is to ask for the system password and I'll still see everything?"

Gary,
The short answer to that is that they can NOT see everything by entering with a System Password. They can see locked pages such as picture galleries, but they can't see profiles - which may contain updated information classmates have entered - if those profiles have been locked by the classmate to block search engines, etc. If they want to fully participate, they have to join and log in, keep their own profiles current, and keep up with what others are doing.

Gosh, Gary. Don't know what else we can say. I hope you have taken a look at the wording changes on any of our password protected pages. The changes Brad made for us certainly fit the bill. Classmates and guests are addressed separately.

Remember, a system password does not allow a member to see profiles, which means IF given a system password they will not see everything.

Our members need to know only what is there for them... how to join. I've shared what I say in a reply to classmates somewhere above and do not receive a push for the system password.

It is good that you opened a bit of your home page showing the links available to members of your site. It shows them what they are missing by not joining. Your site looks good, Gary and I like the "Welcome" on the wood, too!

Thanks John. Your answer is exactly what is wanted to know, especially the part saying "if they want to fully participate, etc..." I still would like to know though why there is an insistence on confusing classmates who have not yet joined the site by having both the join link and request for the system password phrase on the same page. Perhaps it we had a small sentence added asking classmates to please consider joining rather than requesting the system password, it would put a halt to what is occurring on my class site.

John Ralph wrote:

As Brad shared, he had the wording changed. Here is a screen shot of a page as it is now. Please note, classmates are not given the option of the system password. Thanks, Brad.

Gary Hodge wrote:

Gary Hodge wrote:

(Brad never explicitly said, so I'm inferring from Brad saying " will do all items suggested above.")

Respectfully disagree with you, John.

And the wording in the Guest portion of the screen still suggests that classmates are supposed to ask for a password if you have not received one.

I'm okay with that Jack (post #75) as long as GUESTS are NEVER allowed to see member profiles. That is the key item I do not want to lose. I'd rather have admins as Guests who show as having been on the site.

One step at a time. Rewording works. We've seen things change and this will in good time.

Gwen, if you follow my posts, we (our site) don't even want guests that we do not know. If we know them, don't care if they see profiles. There's no terrible secrets they will discover

Anyone trusted enough to enter the site will be formally entered as a "guest", such as past teachers, from another class, association or a sibling that helps promote the site or helps organize events. No system passwords ever.

It would be nice to have a new category of guest that expires (with limited rights) but it's not a big deal to me. Might use that if it allowed a 1 day limit and tracking.

The system password thing always was an odd duck/wording. I think it was a way to accomplish goals that could have been done in the way I described. It's really not a good thing for a membership list only sort of site.

Does your bank have a 'system password'? Yes, for the techs that administrate the site. I have lots of "system passwords" but they have nothing to do with membership access. And since this sort of thing is not common (I don't know of any other site that does this) people tend to associate with what they know/have done, so hey, why not ask for this special 'system password' thing. What I'm also saying is that I'd pick a different word.

Dumping it is for me since it's so much simpler

(Relevant Example, does FB have a 'system password' option to join where you can browse differently from joining?) I'm really called Jack

Wording change was only a quick "bandaid" in the right direction. I have already submitted 3 new mockups (which will become 4 in production) to the design folks. Once done we'll turn them over to programming. System Password in future will only show up if you're actually using it -- if you're not it will be omitted from the password protected screen. There's of course a work queue thus we'll get this integrated as quickly as we're able.

Thank you everyone. In the mean time, until Class Creator makes good on its' word to alter the phrasing, which will be very much appreciated, I am going to have to place a clarifying message on our class home page to end the continued classmate confusion.

When would it be seen? Can you be more specific, please?
(I feel I owe it to my classmates to ask instead of dealing in generalities.)

Brad Switzer wrote:

Quote:

So if in this new option you elect to not have a system password, then it won't show up. Or put another way, picking that option will mean you are "using it".

This was discussed early on starting with my comment to prefer to not have a system password.

Jack is dead on.

Nice! I like the new page. Is that the final product, or another step in the planned project?

Ok all above is now live in the system. Please log out of your site and then click any password protected page to see the new password protected screen.

Bear in mind the new password protected screen will look and say a variety of things based on what you've done. For instance, if you remove your system password entirely, you'll see the screen no longer asks for it at all. If you restrict your Classmate Profiles page, the new restricted page links you to Missing Classmates. If you've also restricted Missing Classmates, the new restricted page then requires a System Password (and you can't of course restrict both of these pages in admin still without first setting a system password).

Bottom line: The new "Restricted Page" (that's what we're going to call it now) can take on 4 different appearances based on the options you've selected on your web site, and the "System Password" entry area itself will or won't appear based on whether or not you are utilizing a System Password.

I think this new setup will be a whole helluva lot clearer for all who hit this page so THANK YOU to all of you again for as a group determining how this page can best meet the needs of all. Awesome! All of you guys and gals rock. Thank you for once again making the system better.

I think there is a a misunderstanding on not having a "system password" (either in this discussion or by the programmer).

If I -blank- the password it removes ALL password protection vs just giving the regular login screen if a link is marked "Restrict to Classmates Only".

Your FAQ System Password description also infers that's how it works (did the programmer used that?), but that's not how it's supposed to work. The FAQ says the system password protects "any or all pages of your choice by clicking the various password checkboxes next to your site pages." but there is no such checkbox??? (or am I blind?)

Looks like the FAQ is for some very old implementation.

It is also confusing how it is written to disable the system password. I blanked it out only because there was not an option to not have a system password. That is not obvious if that was the intent.

This is the wording that implies that the System Password is only for access by non-classmates, not that it removes all PW.

If you would like to allow somebody into pages you have restricted to Classmates only, create a system password below

P.S. It is much nicer screen.

John the new "Restricted screen" is the final product, baring some small aesthetic tweaks I sent to programming.

Jack, you are also so good. Thank you.

1) The FAQs of course were written for the prior system, so we'll need to update that now ASAP.

2) Blanking out a System Password should not force somebody to go back in and re-restrict the pages desired. That's a very good catch of course and I'll ask the programmer to tweak that immediately.

oh, and

3) I've also asked the programmer to add a "Remove System Password" text link under the System Password (if there is one). Another good suggestion Jack! Thanks.

Jack Vermeulen wrote:

P.S. It is much nicer screen.

I agree with Jack. The new Restricted page looks great and I really like the fact our school logo and name stands out more.

Thanks to Shanny for suggesting a page design!

Since I don't have a current need for a system password, I'd remove it and do some testing - if I knew how. But... I interpret what I read as saying that a system password is mandatory if I want to lock pages. And I don't want to lose the ability to do that.

If that's no longer true in the current environment, I can see a potential need to turn on a system password temporarily in isolated cases to take advantage of the 'read only' (except profiles) functionality, but would still use it very sparingly since there's no way I know of to track whether it's actually being used, or who's using it.

Oh, and fyi, the FAQ entries for system password and Privacy question #4, and the warning message if you lock the Classmate Profiles page are obsolete since the system now defaults to the Missing list if the Classmate Profiles page is locked.

FAQs will be updated tomorrow to reflect new changes.

System Password removal now works and the login now is very nice and clean (yay) ... with one little mistake.

The top of the login to the right of the logo does not show the same as the other dialogs. It is missing this text (edit - see last edit below)

Quote:

Edit: I use IE to test while I make changes in FF. Turns out the running IE in compatibility mode is the reason that text did not show. That's probably not unusual for those that run IE10 since that (compat mode) was a way to get IE10 to work with CC. Don't know CC status/behavior currently in this regard for Filevault, page display, uploads, etc.

So the text is there, but not in IE10 compatibility (which shows as IE7 in code - that's why it messes things up. I gave a link that shows how to detect this properly - from MS tech site).

And I really like the way the "Contact Us" is now dynamically generated. Very nice touch.

Thanks Jack.

Brad. May I please write to you, privately, about something else, via email, for your eyes only to see, read and to possibly respond?

Gary, you can send a Contact Form from out site and I can direct it to Brad.

Shanny, I like you also am tired of this problem with potential members asking for system password. I would get maybe three on average per week.
I decided to leave the site so anyone can join but added some extra questions that they could only know if they attended our school. I also do not allow them to join the site right away until I verify them.

I really think the System Password should be taken off the site all together. Who ever give out system password anyway? yet it is more prominent when a non member comes upon a password protected page. I have spoken about this on these message board several times myself and I am happy I found this post.