Hi Clair,
Before you log into your site next, go to a page that is site protected to view the page as it appears now. It was changed about a month ago.

Clair Leesang wrote:

See Edit Site Pages link. Go to the bottom and you'll see you can remove the system password. That also removes the option from the Login.

System Password can't be done away with as many people are using it; however, if you remove your System Password, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist on YOUR web site anymore.

I would like verification that if the system password is removed, it can be reinstalled at a later time.

Jim

Jim, correct. You can remove your System Password and re-add it at any time.

Thanks, Brad.

I went to the Edit Site Pages and clicked on the link at the bottom to remove the system password, then confirmed that the system password is gone. Now, how do I get it back? There is no link at the bottom of the Edit Site Pages page.

Jim

Post this in Bugs. Someone changed the code without testing. There used to be an option to create it again, although you had to refresh the page.

Jim - I am reporting that disappearing system password to the programmer.

Jim, I re-enabled your site to have the System Password again. If you Remove the System password, you are really Removing the need for the System password. New sites that are built do not include that as an option as one can already assign someone to be a guest member (or even hidden guest) and provide them with a login.

Scott,

Thanks for adding the link back.

Sometimes during the TAP Live Chat, admins wish to share password protection pages with other admins for a limited time. We do this by providing a system password. This is easier that adding individual admins as guests and it does not give them access to the individual classmate profiles.

I like the new feature that allows us to turn off the system password so that classmate will not ask for it, but I want to be able to turn it on again to share password protected pages with other admins. Before I turned off that feature, I asked if it could be turned on and Brad said that it could in reply #103 above. Having that ability works better than adding, then removing a number of admins as guests.

Jim

I agree with Jim. Having it permanently removed was never discussed. It was always with the idea that one could use the System Password, or guest or nothing. And I discussed this with my other admins that it would be so.

It really needs to be an option as Jim noted or for other transient use with trusted members. I suppose one could also make a permanent "guest" and keep changing the PW for that one. (But that was always an option, unless this new type of guest has the same limitations are prior 'system password' access?)

The main point is that none of this was discussed/documented as a change.

Scott Mastenbrook wrote:

Scott, could you please re-enable my site to have a system password again too?

Thanks

Quote:

Scott, It's true that many sites no longer need a system password now that it's no longer mandatory in order to protect pages. But even though its use can't be tracked or monitored, it's still a valuable tool for allowing other admins, potential ClassCreator customers, visitors like Alumni Association reps, family members, etc, the ability to view our entire site - except for the contents of member profiles - while blocking the ability to make any changes.

Unless and until a "Limited Guest" option is created which allows a Guest Member to be configured as having the same functionality as the current System Password user, the ability to remove the system password and recreate one at will is still needed.

I found out the hard way that the issue raised in replies #109 – #112 were never resolved or responded to.

I had a legitimate request from a non-member of our site to have temporary access to our site. I went in to the Edit Site Page and scrolled down to the bottom and there were two options to select, where in the past, there was only one. The system password box was empty, so I entered a password and saved. At the end of the announced period of availability, I went in and removed the password and saved, thinking that the options would remain for future use as I requested in reply #109.

Today, I went in to enter a new password, but both options are now gone. Based on the comments following #109, there are others who would like to see this option re-enabled permanently. If this is not an option, I would like it re-enabled on my site with a warning that if a password is removed and not changed, the option will be lost. Such a warning should be placed on all sites that still have this option as I suspect that there are many admins who do not know the consequences of deleting a system password.

Jim

Jim all set on this. Please go into your Edit Site Pages and click the Change System Password button. I put in a 4 character temporary password.

As requested in response 111 my ability to have the password option reinstated was honored. An issue I have is that the password allows one to view locked profiles now. It didn't in the past. Can that restriction be restored?

Brad,

Thanks for re-enabling the system password options. Have they been permanently re-enabled as requested or do I run the risk of losing them again if I inadvertently delete the password instead of changing it? I assumed that if an admin does not want to use the system password, they would just click on the Remove System Password button on both options would go away. Clicking on Save without a password in the Change System Password box should not result in losing this option.

I also agree with F C’s comment above (#115). The reason I prefer to use the system password over a guest member is that, in the past, locked member profiles were not visible. Along the same line, I have often wondered if the In Memory page should be similarly restricted.

Jim

FC, Where do you see that a system password allows you to see locked profiles? On my site and one other I have system password access to, I get a small box that tells me "You have to be logged in to see this". Could it be that you still have cookies on your PC allowing you to view profiles?

Jim, At one time, back in the infamous "Restricted Screen" thread, it was suggested that an updated Guest account which could be configured with varying degrees of access and functionality could replace the system password function - and allow tracking and monitoring when it's used. See reference to that in #112 above. There's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, and most of that took a hefty bite out of of CC available resources.

Brad - is a configurable multi-function Guest account still somewhere on a 'wish list'?

John,

I, too, can now access member profiles when using a system password. Prior to my system password being re-enabled, I would get the message that I must be logged in. Regarding cookies, I don't know if I have a cookie problem and don't know how to fix it if I do.

As far as I know, guest members have access to member profiles which is something I don't want guests to have access to, so the system password solves that issue. If the guest member can be restricted, then maybe I could live with that, but I don't want to go through the effort of creating a guest member and then delete it soon thereafter.

Jim

All set on this.

F C Bock wrote:

It's available again for sites that were using it. It's also something we can easily toggle on and off from here. Note that the System Password caused considerable confusion and is not part of the default system anymore (if you build a brand new site -- although we could still toggle it on for new sites by request). On new sites if the admin wants non members to be able to view restricted content the use of the guest and/or hidden guest features is the answer.

Jim Valentine wrote:

No. Although it's something we can still consider once [a litany] of higher priority items are attended to.

John Ralph wrote:

Brad Switzer in #120 wrote:

Brad,

This issue is not all set for me. I can still access member profiles when using the system password. The locks are missing on the entire list and I am not logged in to my site in another window.

Jim

Please refresh page and try again now.

Brad,

All is well, the locks are back.

Thank you.

Jim

Brad, thanks for restoring the original functionality. It's a great feature. I find it to be very useful when I want to easily give someone access to the site while still honoring a classmate's preference to not have his profile publicly visible.

Cheers all!

A little late here... I also really appreciate the updated "Restricted screen" page layout and wording, as well as the dynamic "Contact Us" email form. Thank you! I would like to see one tiny little tweak, if possible:

Since there are 2 hyperlinked "contact us" pathways/scenarios, is it possible to build in an IF/THEN statement to auto-populate the email Subject Line with either "Add Me" (Request to Join), or "System Password Requested" based on the path taken? Or, in lieu of that idea, maybe just a drop-down selection for the Subject Line?

Regarding the system password discussion above, I created a system-wide password yet never opted to provide it to a non-member for access. However, I am curious if a system password is required (from a programming point of view) in order to designate some pages as "members only" while other pages remain public? I will say that I'm not bothered by the option in the event that some of my peers wish to keep the system password feature. I don't need it for providing access to guests, but I do like the flexibility of choosing which pages to make private vs. public.

I do also like Jack's suggestion of an auto-expiration option for temporary guest access. Not an urgent priority for me, however.

Thanks!
--Terry

Happy Class Creator site admin since 2008

Oops, I didn't read all the way through this thread... Sorry! Is there a single announcement about all these changes as they currently stand?

Brad Switzer wrote:

Terry, When the new Restricted Page was introduced, so was the option to restrict pages to members only - whether you had a system password or not.

I too would like to have some config options for guest members since use of the system password can't be monitored or tracked (but can't see user profiles or post)and guest member are totally unrestrictred. In fact, Brad set out some good suggestions for what might be done. But for now, he says that's a subject to be considered some time in the future.

Thanks, John. I had forgotten that the system password is located on the Edit Site Pages view, (I was looking for it on the Preferences page). Your post set me straight when I had to think about where page-viewing restrictions are set.

But, hey, that's the beauty of our CC sites, isn't it? They run themselves so well it's easy to forget how I set it up!

Given Brad's comment that System Password is no longer a default option, it's odd that (for those building a new web site) when making Classmate Profiles private, up pops a warning to do so only by enabling the (non-existent) System Password, which of course can be found nowhere. At a minimum, should the pop-up invite the admin to contact CC to have the System Password feature turned on? Could waste someone's time trying to find the feature, otherwise.

BTW, does anybody get any pushback about classmates' names being publicly viewable by whomever is on the Internet and stumbles upon the web site, whether by searching a known name or otherwise? Even if the profile is ultimately locked as private, all the names are there for anyone to see. Am I wrong?

Jim Ekins wrote:

Not sure what you're describing in the first paragraph but with regards to the second: I created my site in September 2008. I've never had a classmate express concern that their name was on the Classmate Profiles page and could be accessed by anyone on the Internet.

Thanks for your input on the second paragraph stuff. The first paragraph was really there to capture the attention of somebody at CC.

Jim, There have been sites which found all the names and additional info (military service, deceased) on some of those web sites which falsely claim to be official - and then sell the personal info they get when people register with them. I got an email from one of them not too long ago, telling me it was the "official site" for our Alumni Association, and asking for a $100 one time fee to register. I looked at the site, and it had a lot of the names from various classes at our school, but... the alumni association had never heard of it.

Many sites have elected to lock the class profiles page and keep the 'Missing' page open so stragglers could join. Not perfect, but a much more limited number of visible names, and no additional data available to search engines and passers-by.

Yes, but for new websites, there no longer is an obvious way to lock the Classmate Profiles (hide the list of classmates) and still have a way for wannabe classmates to join the website, because the System Password has been taken away by CC. If I am wrong (and only CC knows, because existing websites are grandfathered into System Password functionality), then I welcome clarification.

I do appreciate that CC is trying to strike a balance between privacy and functionality. I would not wish to be in their shoes.

And I am totally open to being corrected if I missed the boat and am wrong about present status of things.

If the Classmate Profiles page is password protected, when the JOIN HERE is clicked on the login box, it goes to the MISSING CLASSMATES page. If that page is also password protected, then you get the SYSTEM PASSWORD page. I don't think the words "SYSTEM PASSWORD" display on that page if that feature has been disabled, which it is by default now.

Are you saying that you do not have a System Password? First of all that's a bug because your login makes it an option to login with the system PW or ask for one. Since you don't/can't have one it's a BUG. Post that in bugs.

If you ask CC, you can have the System PW option restored. Don't know why one has to ask. It originally was a toggled thing, so it's not like it was extra work - it WORKED already. It took EXTRA work to disable it.

Your site right now is very difficult to join because everything is locked down. Profiles, missing, memory, contact - the whole 9 yards. Did you know this?

The visibility of profiles is for sure a personal thing. I try to objectively quantify what the benefits are.

What is the main goal of the site? If it's getting members, make everything as easy and enticing as possible. That means making the first steps easily accessible.

If one is trying to hide from collectors, then having one's name out there is bad. We have one person who was some sort of investigator and does not want his yearbook picture shown in case some person is trying to find him. (Does he realize that he doesn't look like that anymore?)

In a hundred years who is going to care that somebody found your name on the profile list.

Jim, When you go to Edit Site Pages, and then click on the Edit Link button for the Class Profiles page, don't you have a check box option to "Restrict to logged in classmates only"? If you leave that checked, but uncheck the "Missing" page people can join normally.

Thanks. Maybe I should stand down on my observations, because they are perhaps unique. But if a website elects not to have Missing Classmates turned on (for whatever reason--but consider a small class of recent graduates or an HOA who as adopted CC's wonderful website for homeowner association use, where there are no "missing"), if Classmate Profile is protected, then nothing happens when somebody is invited to join the website and they click on the "Join Here" black rectangular button. They simply stay on that page without anything happening.

CC should not be expected to jump through hoops to fix what I might call "bugs" that may apply only to rare situations that may constitute less than 5% of the subscriber population. Frankly, I am grateful that the website is as flexible as it is. I understand why they took the System Password away as a default; that probably is the right thing to do for the majority of websites that they host.

('not sure Kyle answered my question, though, about why the pop-up caveat invites admins to turn on System Password for new websites where that option is not available.)

Jack makes several good points. Very few people should object to their name appearing in a list of many who graduated from the same school at the same time. 'pretty sure that most of us won't care much about all of this in 40 years, let alone 100.

Not sure we are on the same page. You should not have a System Password box on the login. Here's your login for protected or Join here

Thanks, Jack, and I feel bad about bugging everyone. I have three websites going with CC and I should have logged in under the relevant one (I didn't think that it would matter). My comments are not about the one that you sought out and referenced with a cut and paste. NEW websites do not accommodate the System Password (w/o contacting CC and asking for it to be enabled); older websites still have that feature grandfathered.

I do appreciate your timely comments and insight, however.

Going forward, I will email CC privately about my unique situation.

Jim

There's a lot of wrong info here...

System Password exists. If you try to restrict your Classmate Profiles page AND your Missing Classmates page the System Password is immediately back for you (right where it always was -- system even jumps directly to it after providing instructions). Give it a whirl and you'll see what I mean.

I updated the popup text there to make it more clear. Kyle was right about everything else. If you password protect Classmate Profiles page system jumps to Missing Classmates where non-joined classmates see only non-joined names. If that's restricted too classmate needs to have the System password (entry box is then provided on stock restricted page).

Everything is working normally here.

Wait a minute Brad. This was NEVER explained anywhere. This is the sequence of events here in this topic by you

Quote:

And now we again have a change - with no discussion - that it's only available for restricted profiles?

We only have "correct info" if CC gives it Brad. That was definitely not our doing. The wrong info is by CC, not us.

Besides that, I disagree with the conclusion. Read back to the start and somehow somewhere someone at CC thought it made sense. Really, it makes no sense. Either one has a System Password or they do not. It has nothing to do with restricted Profiles and was never discussed that way. It's an option that is convenient for some.

There are sites with restricted profiles, but not missing and they have a system PW. I guess they never turned turned the System PW off and saw that it won't come back? Now it's there again, so they didn't miss anything

Go back to the very start of this topic on how this evolved. Give it a whirl and you'll see what we mean.

Let's give a fair objective review of this topic and update the documentation. Next post

Brad Switzer wrote:

This is what the documentations says. What part of this no longer applies and why? (Don't say it's confusing, there are lots of confusing things on CC) Since the guest option was never finished (or has priority) this really needs to be enabled like it used to be.

Technically nothing is working normally according to the documentation.

Quote:

Ack! Thank you Jack! That wording should have been updated. Fixed.

Other than joining when Classmate Profiles and Missing Classmates are locked down, the only other value of the System Password was allowing admins to allow non classmates to access password protected pages of the site. This came with more confusion than you can even imagine. It also came with additional security questions that were necessary, like should the System Password allow access to restricted classmate profiles. The Admin could decide! Classmates never knew that though (it was really a security violation). With LIs and What's New page coming and so forth that same question would be 10 fold in its magnitude. It was a bad system and the support that came in as a result highlighted that in a significant fashion.

Redoing the system as it is now has been wonderful. If the Admin makes moves that require a System Password, one appears. Otherwise it's not there on the interface to confuse people in the first place. Much better. For a litany of reasons the System Password was not a sensible way to allow non members to view pages marked for members eyes only. We didn't take it away from anybody who had it, but it would have been a very bad decision to keep it in place as it was.

If you'd like to debate the best way to allow non members to see pages that were clearly marked for members eyes only we can certainly do that. System Password was not a winning solution. KISS. Keep it simple. The system is way more clear now and the Support submissions virtually non existent now, vs. near disaster level prior. Again I'm happy to have the conversation of allowing non members to view member pages, but the former System Password setup was a trainwreck.

Just FYI, in my estimation you're probably about 5 times more advanced than a typical user Jack (taking nothing away from a typical user!). You get things easily. I think you and I will both agree though that everything in the system needs to be clear and usable for all. There may be some value in making this type of thing an Advanced Preferences option in the future, while keeping it simple for typical users. "Restricted page" vs. "Non-restricted page" is a very simple thing nobody is having difficulty understanding.

I hear you Brad. But I was never aware of any time where system pswd access allowed viewing profiles or posting/updating. In fact, that was exactly why many of us used the system password. Someone like the Alumni Association liason could view locked pages, but couldn't see profiles or post or make any changes.
And the comment that "for new systems without a system password, a guest or hidden guest was the answer" didn't fit the need we (and new system admins could have) had. Both guest and hidden guest allow full view access and post/update capability.

If you want to phase out the system password, fine. But give us the tools to replace that function with a configurable guest where we can control what they can and can't do - as discussed in earlier in this thread. Or... support the system password function for everyone as it's always been - with the option to turn it off or on as needed.

I'm just one of several here who have an IT related background. I'm just used to speaking out since that's how I made my living. (I recently talked to a potential member explaining how to join and she said: You were one of the quiet ones:lol

I agree with you. If you look at the start of this topic, you'll see I personally have no need for a System PW (I even wanted it removed for exactly the reasons you give). Login for restricted pages is much prettier. But almost all pages I run into still have the System PW option there (must all be prior classes).

To respect those that did want and still have the System PW, it would be wise to make it obvious vs non-obvious. I'm a reader, but also know that most people are not. So hiding it in the docs also won't help.

Everything that is obvious to us is not obvious to a person starting on CC. For example, I had no clue about the "source" button in the editor. That's actually the bread and butter for tuning a site. P.S. I was also very confused about the System PW description. Original doc was awfully confusing (esp to a person with IT background where "system password" has a very special meaning). So one idea is to RENAME that to something else, like GUEST PASSWORD.

I was hoping the guest thing would have a "restriction" option on it. That would let one track "guests". That's the part I'm interested in.

(Sidetrack note: Just had a person begging to be a guest, we exchange emails, go to the trouble to make an entry and then they never "join".)

Yes, kiss is always better. Interestingly here we have a case where there might be thousands of classes with that enabled already, therefore CC has to support it, right? In that sense, it's not extra work. Just the right place to enable it for the thousands that already have it in place.

Having an advanced page with the understanding that normally nothing here has to be changed is a great idea. Every option has the disadvantage of potentially looking like a hard system vs a flexible system. I've run into that trying to make people happy and then the forums say "Yeah, but it's so complicated)

That's just part of design life. But the goal is always kiss. I hope that came across OK since you'll make a lot of users happy satisfying this rather valuable option (one way or the other).

There's far more to this than I've even stated here. For the moment though, everyone who was using the System Password to allow access to restricted pages still can. Yes, we do have to support it, but everyone using it that way already understands it. While only a guess, I doubt we've gotten one single phone call from people still using the System Password this way. I.E. it hasn't been a problem.

John, I don't recall exactly when you came on or exactly the state of that feature at that time, but it went through a series of phases, including allowing admins to allow or not allow system password to view restricted profiles.

Again we never removed the function from anyone using it, and FYI it's also something we can just toggle on easily still. I.E. if you were to build a new site right now and wanted it, we could just turn it on.

Bottom line, former system, while it worked in your cases and I totally get where you're coming from, was bad for a whole litany of reasons too numerous to recount.

I think we all agree there's value in having a feature that allows selected people into pages that are otherwise restricted. The last system just wasn't it. I'm just one of many with this opinion and I think anyone on this side of the fence would agree.

Again, totally open to a better system. But people who were using that still can just like they always could before. We've merely stopped new users from pouring oil on fire until a KISS solution is available.

Correct, NEW users had trouble with it because:

1. The name is confusing - should be called GUEST PASSWORD

2. The documentation was AWFUL. I couldn't understand at all what CC was trying to say. And I've been reading technical docs since 1966 starting with a 7090 instruction manual. I read them for fun.

Your current alert popup explanation is also not clear at all. Sure, I understand it, but to a new user, it's not clear at all. First bad thing - way too tiny print. You need to develop a nicely formatted page/link click or generate. That's how you do it (not a quickie alert shortcut.)

However, don't blame it on the function. The fire is 99% a CC creation by poor docs and wording not suited to a NEW user. As I said above, CC wording had me stumped. It was the first question I asked the other admins. Is this something I use to edit the system? Had no idea of the actual purpose from the description given.

Quick intro on docs: Assume the other person knows nothing about CC (which of course they don't). Therefore any word you use that's specific to CC MUST have either a link to a definition or a description right there.

It's NEVER a good idea to say "there's more to it" since I can say that too and where exactly does that explain anything? Again trying to explain the issue here.

The way to approach this is to STICK WITH the original goal which is to create guests with guest passes. That isolates it and make it much easier to understand the purpose. (System is not it.)

Sometimes CC just comes at things from the wrong angle and then everything keeps coming out wrong. This topic is a very good example. Just see the first post. This guy brought up something that I agreed with immediately
Quote:

and obviously no one ever had. And now we are here. There are lots of things like that on CC that need a redesign or better consistency. (You'll probably get mail here)

For example, why don't all the editor pages have a Save and Continue option? Might sound minor to you but it's a royal PIA. That was also one of the ideas I argued for and it was done for the main edit pages but never carried into the other areas. (Saving and leaving a page is a ..#$%$.. design - again more mail.)

Thanks Jack.

I need your/CC's help getting our site back up. Believe or not, I managed to kill it.

Hope you are reading. Please see my post in the bugs forum.

Easy to fix on your end.

LINK to bugs