As most regular readers here know, we've been working with the structure or Classmate Profiles and the What's New Page for some time now.

What's New page has already gone through a litany of revisions (with a more more in the works), and we have a list of issues now regarding Profiles we're dealing with.

Let me paraphrase some of the requests and items of confusion we've seen:

1) Double items: A classmate adds something like a photo, and it appears under the Photos section (ribbon) heading as well as Latest Interactions. Same for videos.

2) Profile questions and answers: They're really great at first and everybody loves reading them. The problem is over time this content is nearly never changed by the classmate. Answers stay the same. In general these items are rarely commented on as well. In the vast majority of Profiles this stagnant content displays over and over and over and is really nothing but in the way on the default Profile view.

3) How to see a classmate's photos and videos only, outside of their Profile Latest Interactions view. Are the two thumbnail tabs currently there clear?

Based on all the comments we've read as well as considerable internal discussion here's how we're looking at handling these issues:

1) DOUBLE ITEMS: Remove Photos and Videos ribbon headings from default Profile view. Same photos and videos are already showing in Latest Interactions in the default view anyway. Plus people can easily click the current Photos and Videos thumbnail tabs to get back to these galleries.

2) PROFILE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: The very first time somebody goes to a Profile, show them. On visit 2 and thereafter move this information behind a link or tab. This way it's always available, but this content that nearly never gets updated is now out of the default Profile view. No sense in showing static content in the default view every time somebody visits that they never read -- it's just in the way.

3) PHOTOS AND VIDEOS THUMBNAIL TABS: What's the best way to get back to just Photos and Videos? Are the current thumbnail tabs clear? i.e. do you readily realize these are links to get to Photos and Videos galleries? Or would a standard tab type system be better, where you simply click a "Photos" or "Videos" tab to get back to these galleries?

The crux of what we're trying to decide now is how does the viewer get back to Photos, get back to Videos, and get back to Profile Questions and answers if we take that off of the default view. Essentially there's two schools of thought on the table:

a) Keep the current Photos and Videos thumbnail tabs, and add an additional link somewhere on the top area of Profiles to return to Profile Bio (Profile Generator questions and answers).

b) Get rid of the current Photos and Videos thumbnail tabs, and replace them with consistent tabs across the top of the Profile. Because we also need a way to get back to Profile Bio there would be a similar tab for this item. So the tabs across the top would look like this:

Profile Bio | Photos | Videos

Would you rather see 3 tabs like this, or would you prefer we keep the Photos and Videos thumbnail tabs just like they are, and simply work in an additional link or tab to return to Profile Bio?

Any comments on these issues would be very helpful. If you have other ideas on how to best present this information we'd be very interested in hearing that as well. Profiles contain an interesting mix of both older and new information, and we want to make sure we're presenting it in the best possible fashion to keep people engaged.

As always, thanks to all of you for providing feedback on important issues like this and continuing to shape the system.

I appreciate you keeping us advised on WHAT is being worked, so we don't presume that something has been 'pushed to the back burner' and has been lost due to the large number of requests from admin's.

With that 'said,' how about making this a monthly feature to keep us updated on things?

Let's see if we can do a better job of keeping up with what's on the work table. Any opinions on the issue at hand Steve?

Most of this is understood but a couple things are fuzzy.
One. When you describe what would happen on the first and then second visit to the page content, is that something we would have to do? Couldn't the server's system software differentiate between a first and second visit, etc... and then shift the content in the way described?
Second. If we see or are told, via complaints, of classmates who are posting material on their profile pages of, I'll just say, "exposed adult body parts or graphic consenting adult acts", etc... Or threatening, discriminatory or racist messages, what should we do? Can we remove the pictures and messages or do we have to show the content to you or another staff member?

Tabs would be brilliant, Brad. Also a tab for older comments and replies, some of our members profiles scroll forever.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment!

1) Yes, the system would automatically show Profile Questions and Answers upon first visit, and move it under a link or tab on the second visit. This allows this great information to be seen in the default view the first time, but eliminates content already seen from the default view upon 2nd viewing and thereafter.

2) No, definitely don't show it to us. Just delete it. It's your site, and you can delete anything you want for any reason. The only time we're going to delete something on one of your sites is if somebody makes an allegation of copyright infringement, which has only happened twice in our history. When it does happen, we follow the procedure outlined here: http://www.classcreator.com/dmca.cfm

Gary Hodge wrote:

One thing I didn't mention is Profile content will load in batches (like the What's New page already does). So for instance the default Profile view will show the classmate's latest 20 interactions. If the viewer keeps scrolling down the page the next 20 will dynamically load in. And so forth and so on. This allows people to read all the content they want. Normally when people get down to the info they've already seen before they just stop reading there. And thus no new content batches load. This methodology allows people to read all they want while not taxing the system with gigantic data loads.

Ed Vaillancourt wrote:

Good ideas. It would great able to toggle between static/dynamic info in a profile: bio vs. pix vs. videos ... would there also be a tab for the "Comments"? Do I understand that one of the proposals would be tabs that would always be visible while scrolling through the content of any one of the tabs (bio/photo/videos)? If that is a proposal, or something like it, that would be great ...

Comments will simply show up as a Latest Interaction. In the interest of keeping it simple, we've decided a Comments tab would be redundant. Those sames comments are already on the Profile default view in the exact chronological progression in which they were made.

No the tabs wouldn't always stay visible. If somebody is wanting to get back to a specific photo or video they would likely just click one of those two tabs at the top of the page when the Profile loads (or click one of the two current photo and video thumbs if we decide to keep those). The Profile Bio tab is going to be rarely if ever clicked, as again that's content that has already been seen long ago. Thus we don't see much value in fixing in the tabs in place. Better that screen real estate be used for new content.

Brad,
Certainly you could go with a bar above the pictures with links, but I believe that tabs there would be better. I would suggest a tab for the profile, one for the pictures and videos, and one for messages from classmates. I believe this would be the easiest way to navigate.You could keep the Then and now pics on whatever page is deemed the default opener when going to that profile. You could also keep the picture place holder on that page and use it as an additional link to the picture tab page. Any user would have no trouble navigating back and forth between pages.
That's my idea, for what it's worth.
Merry Christmas,
Tim

thanks for the clarification... scrolling back to the top of a page to find tabs (new or existing) is pretty easy. Merry Christmas

I would prefer one Profile page where anything and everything pertaining to a Classmate appears in one view, on one page. What we don't need is duplication, where something that appears on a Classmate's Profile also appears on the 'What's New' page and stay there forever. We need a system that leaves something on a Profile so that it can always be referred to but removes it from the 'What's New' page after something like a week.

I'll give it more thought when I've stopped celebrating Christmas.

Sweet dreams and a Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year to you all.

And to you!

A few thoughts on your comment:

Although you're right, content technically never leaves the What's New page, we only load content batches in groupings of 20. If you want to see more you can just keep scrolling down and the next batch of 20 will load and so forth and so on. This keeps the page very manageable. Of course you can always turn off What's New too if desired.

Another thing we can consider is a Profile configuration page. There's no chance of one size fitting all here. For instance if you always want Profile Generator answers to appear on the default Profile view, and never be behind a tab, you could just click that option on. With this Admins who want default view to only be current content can have their way, and those who have a lot of value in the Profile Q&As can include that in the default view as well. Everyone happy. Makes perfect sense to me Mark. Thanks.

If the interest is really to keep it simple - leave it the way it is. The assumption is being made that somehow people are confused or whatever with the way it is. I doubt that very much. Pictures? Just click Photos. Ditto Videos. Instantly skips right over the more or less static data.

I'm with tinyf - everything appears in one view. It's simple and easy the way it is. Why add more tabs and clicking that will only confuse the issue. It's not like profiles are complicated to navigate

IOW, users don't have to do anything ATM to see everything. Has anyone considered that some may not even realize they have to click something to see whatever? Heck, we even have classmates that don't even know we have a custom jukebox - hay, it's just a tab they click. Did they ever click it? NO! Why? Imagine what happens when they now have to remember to click and clack various things to see everything. AND that this changes on subsequent visits.

Have user complained about this? If so how many? Or is this just a hypothetical looking for change trouble

If you want to make this some sort of Profile Configuration option, be sure to set "Classic" to default to the way it is now. However, I can think of LOTS OF OTHER THINGS to fix before this thing Brad to make CC easier to use for the admins.

Brad Switzer wrote:

I think Jack is right about there being an element of 'change for change's sake' about this, but I'm confident that whatever Brad and the boys opt for will be something the majority get used to eventually. Problem is, we need something that ALL levels of competence understand. From experience with my own Classmates, I know that the more difficult it appears, the less they'll use it. Please keep it as simple as possible.

Just realised I'm on the computer on Christmas Day. That can't be right! Have fun!

Here's to keeping it simple! Now let's both turn off the computer. Merry Christmas Mark.

I'm with Jack on 'keeping it simple' for the most part.
If you DO add some additional tabs at some point, leave the existing tabs in their current location to avoid confusion.

I can't speak for the rest of the admin's reading this Help & Tips forum, but being the Root Admin. of my class, and a guest on three other sites from my school [as well as a couple of others out of state], I can tell you that only ONE has any level of daily interaction that is viewable to everyone, e.g., I don't know how many PRIVATE messages are exchanged daily on the other sites, so I hope making such changes merits the effort.

<><><><> Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas - my Hanukkah was outstanding!

Thanks for your input Steve. Merry Christmas!

I like the tab concept, but even more if its an option configurable by the admin. The KISS crowd can stay where they are while those who'd like some changes can add them.

Very good. I think we can simply things while making a couple options available so all can meet their own objectives. Good feedback above. Thanks.

First, thanks for asking. As expected, you got some good feedback - and some widely different perspectives.

So let me toss in what I'd like to see. I think that a couple more options might end up with one (configurable) size which just might fit all pretty well - from 'as-is' to a very streamlined display.

Each profile has up to seven sections - Bio, top comments, last interactions, question/answers, photos, videos, and bottom comments. Not all profiles have content in every section. Those with no content don't display now, and there's no need to change that. And we welcomed the option we have now to turn off some sections. We chose to turn off Last Interactions here, for example, since it was very confusing when someone posted an answer to a comment on some profile - which made no sense without seeing what it referred to.

All of those sections (except for the top section) have a tab now - if there's content in that section. If those tabs were expanded to a page-wide ribbon, and we had the option to set the default for the hide/display content option for each section AND either hide or display the contents by clicking on the ribbon, the result should satisfy most needs.

Bonus: Hiding some content makes for a quicker load time. And even if hidden, when anything new in a section highlighted the ribbon to begin with, it could be expanded with a click. And if clicking on Photos or Video icons at the top expanded that section and went straight there - again, multiple smaller loads plus it's still 'user friendly'.

I don't like having to scroll down through a bunch of comments before being able to read the classmate's profile and see their photos.. I know it's been there for a couple of years or more, but, I forget what the classmate wrote when they joined the site.. I don't know how this can be resolved, but, I think their profile takes precedent.

We have factored in all opinions and have come up with a plan we think will work well for most. Then we'll take it from there. This has been very valuable.

If there are any more opinions on the topic keep 'em rolling. Thanks.

What about "Opiions"? I didn't see any of those.

Reminds me of The Jerk (Steve Martin)

"Navin R. Johnson: For one dollar, I'll guess your weight, your height, or your sex. "

Sorry couldn't resist (just a joke in case someone ... )

Please don't hide the profile questions & answers on our site after the first visit. With over 500 classmates, it's impossible to remember the static information for this many people. Thanks for asking for our input.

I would rather see the tree tab system. It would be less confusing.

In another issue that is very irritating to me is the following.

I try to post a happy birthday message and include a photo with each message. The photos I use may be used 30 or 40 times before I change it.

The problem! the comments that appear below the post are related to the photo not the post. The result is that I may have 20 posts saying happy birthday xxxxx. If every person comes back with a Thank You Tom for the greeting, then I get 20 responses based on the photo and not to the one post. See attached example.

What happens on individual profiles you get the greeting with photo then a set of responses totally unrelated to that person.

In the whats new section you get 20 posts to individuals with the SAME set of responded under each post.

Makes for a very confusing post and whats new.